diff --git a/.env.example b/.env.example
index 570c9e7..ba17862 100644
--- a/.env.example
+++ b/.env.example
@@ -2,7 +2,6 @@ PUBLIC_RELAY_URL=ws://localhost:3334   # required — NIP-29 relay hosting the g
 PUBLIC_MODE=simple                     # simple | full (single forum vs. many rooms)
 PUBLIC_GROUP_ID=mygrouprandomid        # required in simple mode; the single forum's group id (ignored in full mode)
 PUBLIC_TITLE=                          # top-bar title; empty falls back to the group name
-PUBLIC_JOINCODE=no                     # yes | no — show an invite-code field when a join is rejected
 PUBLIC_SEARCH=no                       # yes | no — enable the search box (requires a relay with NIP-50 support)
 PUBLIC_LABELS=                         # comma-separated discussion labels (e.g., bug,feature,question)
 PUBLIC_BLOSSOM_URL=                    # Blossom server URL for uploads (e.g., https://blossom.primal.net)
diff --git a/src/lib/components/ChatSidebar.svelte b/src/lib/components/ChatSidebar.svelte
index 6551b79..8d65181 100644
--- a/src/lib/components/ChatSidebar.svelte
+++ b/src/lib/components/ChatSidebar.svelte
@@ -15,9 +15,9 @@
   } from "$lib/moderation.svelte";
   import {
     withJoin,
+    joinState,
     membershipOf,
     ensureMembershipChecked,
-    openJoinModal,
   } from "$lib/join.svelte";
   import { activeGroup } from "$lib/active.svelte";
   import type { NostrUser } from "@nostr/gadgets/metadata";
@@ -76,7 +76,7 @@
   });
 
   function onJoinToChat() {
-    openJoinModal(activeGroup.id, () => tick().then(() => inputEl?.focus()));
+    withJoin(activeGroup.id, () => tick().then(() => inputEl?.focus()));
   }
 
   function requestDeleteMessage(msg: ChatMessageData) {
@@ -486,9 +486,10 @@
     {:else if joinToChat}
       <button
         onclick={onJoinToChat}
-        class="bg-accent hover:bg-accent-hover w-full rounded px-3 py-2 text-sm font-medium text-white"
+        disabled={joinState.busy}
+        class="bg-accent hover:bg-accent-hover w-full rounded px-3 py-2 text-sm font-medium text-white disabled:opacity-50"
       >
-        Join to chat
+        {joinState.busy ? "Joining…" : "Join to chat"}
       </button>
     {:else}
       <div class="relative">
diff --git a/src/lib/components/DiscussionsFeed.svelte b/src/lib/components/DiscussionsFeed.svelte
index d039217..e914916 100644
--- a/src/lib/components/DiscussionsFeed.svelte
+++ b/src/lib/components/DiscussionsFeed.svelte
@@ -18,7 +18,8 @@
   import {
     membershipOf,
     ensureMembershipChecked,
-    openJoinModal,
+    withJoin,
+    joinState,
   } from "$lib/join.svelte";
   import { sortPref } from "$lib/sort.svelte";
   import { page } from "$app/state";
@@ -71,12 +72,7 @@
       openLogin(onNewTopic);
       return;
     }
-    await ensureMembershipChecked(groupId);
-    if (membershipOf(groupId) !== "member") {
-      openJoinModal(groupId, openDraft);
-      return;
-    }
-    openDraft();
+    await withJoin(groupId, openDraft);
   }
 
   function onPrivateJoin() {
@@ -84,7 +80,7 @@
       openLogin();
       return;
     }
-    openJoinModal(groupId, () => loadThreads(groupId, sort));
+    withJoin(groupId, () => loadThreads(groupId, sort));
   }
 
   function relativeTime(ts: number): string {
@@ -138,9 +134,14 @@
       <div class="flex items-center gap-2">
         <button
           onclick={onNewTopic}
-          class="bg-accent hover:bg-accent-hover rounded px-4 py-1.5 font-medium text-white md:px-6 md:text-sm"
+          disabled={joinState.busy}
+          class="bg-accent hover:bg-accent-hover rounded px-4 py-1.5 font-medium text-white disabled:opacity-50 md:px-6 md:text-sm"
         >
-          {joinToPost ? "Join to post" : "New discussion"}
+          {joinState.busy
+            ? "Joining…"
+            : joinToPost
+              ? "Join to post"
+              : "New discussion"}
         </button>
         <SortToggle {sort} />
       </div>
@@ -165,9 +166,14 @@
       </p>
       <button
         onclick={onPrivateJoin}
-        class="bg-accent hover:bg-accent-hover mt-5 rounded px-6 py-1.5 font-medium text-white"
+        disabled={joinState.busy}
+        class="bg-accent hover:bg-accent-hover mt-5 rounded px-6 py-1.5 font-medium text-white disabled:opacity-50"
       >
-        {auth.user ? "Request to join" : "Log in to join"}
+        {joinState.busy
+          ? "Joining…"
+          : auth.user
+            ? "Request to join"
+            : "Log in to join"}
       </button>
     </div>
   {:else}
diff --git a/src/lib/components/JoinModal.svelte b/src/lib/components/JoinModal.svelte
index 4fe7757..babecaa 100644
--- a/src/lib/components/JoinModal.svelte
+++ b/src/lib/components/JoinModal.svelte
@@ -1,19 +1,38 @@
 <script lang="ts">
-  import { joinState, closeJoinModal, submitJoin } from "$lib/join.svelte";
+  import { joinState, closeJoinModal, submitJoinCode } from "$lib/join.svelte";
   import { tick } from "svelte";
 
   let code = $state("");
   let codeInput = $state<HTMLInputElement | null>(null);
+  // Pending approval hides the code field behind a discreet link, so a group
+  // that doesn't hand out codes doesn't send people hunting for one.
+  let codeRevealed = $state(false);
+
+  const step = $derived(joinState.modalStep);
+  const showCode = $derived(
+    step === "relay-code" ||
+      (step === "group-code" && joinState.modalCodeHinted) ||
+      codeRevealed,
+  );
+  const canOfferCode = $derived(
+    step === "pending" || (step === "group-code" && !joinState.modalCodeHinted),
+  );
 
   $effect(() => {
-    if (joinState.modalOpen && joinState.needsCode) {
+    if (!joinState.modalOpen) {
+      code = "";
+      codeRevealed = false;
+    }
+  });
+
+  $effect(() => {
+    if (joinState.modalOpen && showCode) {
       tick().then(() => codeInput?.focus());
     }
-    if (!joinState.modalOpen) code = "";
   });
 
   async function onSubmit() {
-    await submitJoin(code.trim() || undefined);
+    await submitJoinCode(code.trim() || undefined);
   }
 
   function onClose() {
@@ -56,15 +75,28 @@
         id="join-title"
         class="mb-2 text-lg font-semibold text-neutral-900 dark:text-neutral-100"
       >
-        Join this group
+        {#if step === "relay-code"}
+          Invite code required
+        {:else if step === "pending"}
+          Request sent
+        {:else if step === "error"}
+          Could not join
+        {:else}
+          Join this group
+        {/if}
       </h2>
       <p class="mb-4 text-sm text-neutral-600 dark:text-neutral-400">
-        {#if joinState.needsCode}
-          Join this group to participate. If you have an invite code, enter it
-          below — otherwise just send the request.
+        {#if step === "relay-code"}
+          This relay only accepts members. Enter an invite code to join.
+        {:else if step === "pending"}
+          Your request to join has been sent. An admin needs to approve it
+          before you can participate.
+        {:else if step === "error"}
+          The relay refused the request.
+        {:else if joinState.modalCodeHinted}
+          This group requires an invite code to join.
         {:else}
-          Join this group to participate. Your request is sent to the relay and,
-          where needed, approved by an admin.
+          The group refused the join request.
         {/if}
       </p>
 
@@ -77,13 +109,17 @@
         </div>
       {/if}
 
-      {#if joinState.needsCode}
-        <label for="join-code-input" class="sr-only">Invite code</label>
+      {#if showCode}
+        <label for="join-code-input" class="sr-only">
+          {step === "relay-code" ? "Relay invite code" : "Group invite code"}
+        </label>
         <input
           id="join-code-input"
           bind:this={codeInput}
           type="text"
-          placeholder="Invite code (optional)"
+          placeholder={step === "relay-code"
+            ? "Relay invite code"
+            : "Group invite code"}
           bind:value={code}
           disabled={joinState.busy}
           autocomplete="off"
@@ -92,6 +128,14 @@
           onkeydown={(e) => e.key === "Enter" && onSubmit()}
           class="focus:ring-accent mb-3 w-full rounded border border-neutral-200 px-3 py-2 text-sm focus:ring-1 focus:outline-none disabled:opacity-50 dark:border-neutral-700"
         />
+      {:else if canOfferCode}
+        <button
+          type="button"
+          onclick={() => (codeRevealed = true)}
+          class="mb-3 text-sm text-neutral-500 underline hover:text-neutral-800 dark:text-neutral-400 dark:hover:text-neutral-200"
+        >
+          Have an invite code?
+        </button>
       {/if}
 
       <div class="flex justify-end gap-2">
@@ -103,18 +147,16 @@
         >
           Close
         </button>
-        <button
-          type="button"
-          onclick={onSubmit}
-          disabled={joinState.busy}
-          class="bg-accent hover:bg-accent-hover rounded px-3 py-2 text-sm font-medium text-white disabled:cursor-not-allowed disabled:opacity-50"
-        >
-          {joinState.busy
-            ? "Joining…"
-            : joinState.needsCode
-              ? "Request access"
-              : "Join"}
-        </button>
+        {#if showCode}
+          <button
+            type="button"
+            onclick={onSubmit}
+            disabled={joinState.busy || !code.trim()}
+            class="bg-accent hover:bg-accent-hover rounded px-3 py-2 text-sm font-medium text-white disabled:cursor-not-allowed disabled:opacity-50"
+          >
+            {joinState.busy ? "Joining…" : "Join"}
+          </button>
+        {/if}
       </div>
     </div>
   </div>
diff --git a/src/lib/config.ts b/src/lib/config.ts
index bdaefeb..074b953 100644
--- a/src/lib/config.ts
+++ b/src/lib/config.ts
@@ -18,7 +18,6 @@ export const GROUP_ID = env.PUBLIC_GROUP_ID ?? "";
 if (MODE === "simple" && !GROUP_ID) {
   throw new Error("PUBLIC_GROUP_ID is required in simple mode");
 }
-export const JOINCODE_REQUIRED = env.PUBLIC_JOINCODE === "yes";
 // Requires a relay with NIP-50 support.
 export const SEARCH_ENABLED = env.PUBLIC_SEARCH === "yes";
 export const LABELS = (env.PUBLIC_LABELS ?? "")
diff --git a/src/lib/group.svelte.ts b/src/lib/group.svelte.ts
index 87b77c0..289e50f 100644
--- a/src/lib/group.svelte.ts
+++ b/src/lib/group.svelte.ts
@@ -82,3 +82,12 @@ export function getGroupFlags(groupId: string): GroupFlags | null {
     isHidden: group.isHidden,
   };
 }
+
+// Display name for a group from whichever store holds it, falling back to the
+// id when metadata hasn't loaded.
+export function getGroupName(groupId: string): string {
+  if (MODE === "full") {
+    return groupsStore.list.find((x) => x.id === groupId)?.name ?? groupId;
+  }
+  return group?.name ?? groupId;
+}
diff --git a/src/lib/join.svelte.ts b/src/lib/join.svelte.ts
index f527e06..a63dca3 100644
--- a/src/lib/join.svelte.ts
+++ b/src/lib/join.svelte.ts
@@ -1,24 +1,42 @@
 import type { AbstractRelay } from "@nostr/tools/abstract-relay";
+import type { Event } from "@nostr/tools/core";
 import { auth } from "$lib/auth.svelte";
-import { GROUP_ID, MODE, JOINCODE_REQUIRED } from "$lib/config";
-import { ensureForumRelay, publishForum } from "$lib/relay";
-import { getGroupFlags } from "$lib/group.svelte";
+import { GROUP_ID, MODE } from "$lib/config";
+import { ensureForumRelay, publishForum, nip43Self } from "$lib/relay";
+import { getGroupName } from "$lib/group.svelte";
+import { showToast } from "$lib/toast.svelte";
 
 type Membership = "member" | "guest";
+// "none": the relay doesn't support NIP-43, so no relay-level join exists.
+type RelayMembership = Membership | "none";
 
-// Per-group membership, resolved lazily and cached reactively so compose
-// actions can be gated before the user writes anything. Keyed by pubkey so a
+// Writing to a group can be gated at two levels: the relay itself (NIP-43) and
+// the group (NIP-29). Neither gate is advertised up front, so membership is
+// probed by reading the relay's membership events and, failing that, by trying
+// to join and reacting to the rejection. Both caches are keyed by pubkey so a
 // silent session restore (anon → pubkey) re-evaluates instead of reusing the
-// "guest" cached before auth.user was populated; the read stays a pure getter
-// (no state writes inside a derivation).
+// "guest" cached before auth.user was populated.
 let membership = $state<Record<string, Membership>>({});
+let relayMembership = $state<Record<string, RelayMembership>>({});
 const checking = new Map<string, Promise<void>>();
 
+// The modal only appears when a relay refused a step and needs user input.
+// - relay-code: the relay requires an invite code (NIP-43 claim)
+// - group-code: the group refused the join; a code may be needed
+// - pending: the group accepted the request but membership isn't granted yet
+//   (admin approval); an invite code, if any, can still be tried
+// - error: a terminal refusal (e.g. banned); nothing the user can enter helps
+export type JoinStep = "relay-code" | "group-code" | "pending" | "error";
+
 let modalOpen = $state(false);
+let modalStep = $state<JoinStep>("group-code");
 let modalGroup = $state<string | null>(null);
 let modalError = $state<string | null>(null);
+// A rejection message that mentions a code makes the code field the primary
+// affordance rather than a discreet fallback.
+let modalCodeHinted = $state(false);
 let busy = $state(false);
-// Continuation to run once the join succeeds (open the composer, focus the
+// Continuation to run once access is granted (open the composer, focus the
 // reply box, reload a now-visible feed, or retry the original post).
 let onJoined: (() => void | Promise<void>) | null = null;
 
@@ -29,26 +47,27 @@ export const joinState = {
   get modalOpen() {
     return modalOpen;
   },
+  get modalStep() {
+    return modalStep;
+  },
   get modalError() {
     return modalError;
   },
+  get modalCodeHinted() {
+    return modalCodeHinted;
+  },
   get busy() {
     return busy;
   },
-  // Closed groups (and a globally configured invite gate) can't be self-joined,
-  // so the modal collects an invite code; open groups just confirm.
-  get needsCode() {
-    if (JOINCODE_REQUIRED) return true;
-    const f = modalGroup ? getGroupFlags(modalGroup) : null;
-    return !!f?.isClosed;
-  },
 };
 
 export function resetJoinState() {
   membership = {};
+  relayMembership = {};
   modalOpen = false;
   modalGroup = null;
   modalError = null;
+  modalCodeHinted = false;
   busy = false;
   onJoined = null;
 }
@@ -85,11 +104,41 @@ export function ensureMembershipChecked(groupId: string): Promise<void> {
   return p;
 }
 
+type SubFilter = Parameters<AbstractRelay["subscribe"]>[0][number];
+
+// Collects every event matching the filter until EOSE/close/timeout.
+function queryEvents(
+  relay: AbstractRelay,
+  filter: SubFilter,
+  timeoutMs = 3000,
+): Promise<Event[]> {
+  return new Promise((resolve) => {
+    let settled = false;
+    const events: Event[] = [];
+    const finish = () => {
+      if (settled) return;
+      settled = true;
+      try {
+        sub.close();
+      } catch {}
+      resolve(events);
+    };
+    const sub = relay.subscribe([filter], {
+      onevent(e) {
+        events.push(e);
+      },
+      oneose: finish,
+      onclose: finish,
+    });
+    setTimeout(finish, timeoutMs);
+  });
+}
+
 // Existence check for a single matching event (resolves true on first event,
-// false on EOSE/close/timeout). Used for the kind:39002 members-list fallback.
+// false on EOSE/close/timeout).
 function queryHasMatch(
   relay: AbstractRelay,
-  filter: Parameters<AbstractRelay["subscribe"]>[0][number],
+  filter: SubFilter,
   timeoutMs = 3000,
 ): Promise<boolean> {
   return new Promise((resolve) => {
@@ -120,39 +169,34 @@ function queryHasMatch(
 // Newest `created_at` among events matching the filter, or null if none. We
 // don't trust the relay to honour limit ordering, so we keep the max across all
 // returned events (the #p filter keeps the set tiny).
-function latestCreatedAt(
+async function latestCreatedAt(
   relay: AbstractRelay,
-  filter: Parameters<AbstractRelay["subscribe"]>[0][number],
-  timeoutMs = 3000,
+  filter: SubFilter,
 ): Promise<number | null> {
-  return new Promise((resolve) => {
-    let settled = false;
-    let latest: number | null = null;
-    const finish = () => {
-      if (settled) return;
-      settled = true;
-      try {
-        sub.close();
-      } catch {}
-      resolve(latest);
-    };
-    const sub = relay.subscribe([filter], {
-      onevent(e) {
-        if (latest === null || e.created_at > latest) latest = e.created_at;
-      },
-      oneose: finish,
-      onclose: finish,
-    });
-    setTimeout(finish, timeoutMs);
-  });
+  const events = await queryEvents(relay, filter);
+  return events.reduce<number | null>(
+    (max, e) => (max === null || e.created_at > max ? e.created_at : max),
+    null,
+  );
 }
 
-// Membership signal for one group — i.e. "is this user allowed to write here".
-// Admins (kind:39001) can post but need not appear in the members list, so they
-// count as members. Otherwise NIP-29 records membership as moderation events:
-// kind:9000 adds a user, kind:9001 removes one, so the newest of the two for
-// this user decides current membership (a later 9001 unjoins them). When the
-// relay keeps neither, fall back to the kind:39002 members list.
+// Add/remove events are the freshest signal: the newest of the two decides
+// (a later removal unjoins). When the relay keeps neither, the list decides.
+function decideMembership(
+  added: number | null,
+  removed: number | null,
+  listed: boolean,
+): boolean {
+  if (added !== null || removed !== null) {
+    return added !== null && added >= (removed ?? -Infinity);
+  }
+  return listed;
+}
+
+// Group membership — i.e. "is this user allowed to write here". Admins
+// (kind:39001) can post but need not appear in the members list, so they count
+// as members. Otherwise NIP-29 records membership as kind:9000 (add) and
+// kind:9001 (remove) moderation events, with the kind:39002 list as fallback.
 async function checkMembership(
   pubkey: string,
   groupId: string,
@@ -163,7 +207,7 @@ async function checkMembership(
   } catch {
     return false;
   }
-  const [isAdmin, added, removed] = await Promise.all([
+  const [isAdmin, added, removed, listed] = await Promise.all([
     queryHasMatch(relay, {
       kinds: [39001],
       "#d": [groupId],
@@ -172,25 +216,225 @@ async function checkMembership(
     }),
     latestCreatedAt(relay, { kinds: [9000], "#h": [groupId], "#p": [pubkey] }),
     latestCreatedAt(relay, { kinds: [9001], "#h": [groupId], "#p": [pubkey] }),
+    queryHasMatch(relay, {
+      kinds: [39002],
+      "#d": [groupId],
+      "#p": [pubkey],
+      limit: 1,
+    }),
   ]);
   if (isAdmin) return true;
-  if (added !== null || removed !== null) {
-    return added !== null && added >= (removed ?? -Infinity);
-  }
-  return queryHasMatch(relay, {
-    kinds: [39002],
-    "#d": [groupId],
-    "#p": [pubkey],
-    limit: 1,
-  });
+  return decideMembership(added, removed, listed);
 }
 
-// Simple mode pre-checks the single configured group at login so the first post
-// skips the 9021. Full mode checks lazily per room when the user first acts.
+// Relay membership (NIP-43), mirroring the group check: kind:8000 (add) and
+// kind:8001 (remove) signed by the relay, with the kind:13534 list as fallback.
+// The `member` tag isn't filterable, so the list is fetched and scanned.
+async function checkRelayMembership(
+  pubkey: string,
+  self: string,
+): Promise<boolean> {
+  let relay: AbstractRelay;
+  try {
+    relay = await ensureForumRelay();
+  } catch {
+    return false;
+  }
+  const [added, removed, lists] = await Promise.all([
+    latestCreatedAt(relay, { kinds: [8000], authors: [self], "#p": [pubkey] }),
+    latestCreatedAt(relay, { kinds: [8001], authors: [self], "#p": [pubkey] }),
+    queryEvents(relay, { kinds: [13534], authors: [self], limit: 1 }),
+  ]);
+  const listed = lists.some((e) =>
+    e.tags.some((t) => t[0] === "member" && t[1] === pubkey),
+  );
+  return decideMembership(added, removed, listed);
+}
+
+function ensureRelayMembershipChecked(pubkey: string): Promise<void> {
+  if (relayMembership[pubkey]) return Promise.resolve();
+  const k = `relay:${pubkey}`;
+  const existing = checking.get(k);
+  if (existing) return existing;
+  const p = (async () => {
+    try {
+      const self = await nip43Self();
+      if (!self) {
+        relayMembership[pubkey] = "none";
+        return;
+      }
+      const isMember = await checkRelayMembership(pubkey, self);
+      relayMembership[pubkey] = isMember ? "member" : "guest";
+    } finally {
+      checking.delete(k);
+    }
+  })();
+  checking.set(k, p);
+  return p;
+}
+
+// Probes both membership levels at login so a returning member's first post
+// needs no join at all. Full mode checks groups lazily per room instead.
 export async function initJoinForUser(pubkey: string) {
-  if (MODE !== "simple") return;
-  if (await checkMembership(pubkey, GROUP_ID)) {
-    membership[memberKey(GROUP_ID)] = "member";
+  await Promise.all([
+    ensureRelayMembershipChecked(pubkey),
+    MODE === "simple" ? ensureMembershipChecked(GROUP_ID) : undefined,
+  ]);
+}
+
+// Publishing rejections carry the relay's NIP-01 OK message; the prefix is the
+// only cross-relay contract for what went wrong.
+function reason(e: unknown): string {
+  return e instanceof Error ? e.message : String(e);
+}
+const prefixed = (msg: string, prefix: string) =>
+  msg.toLowerCase().startsWith(prefix);
+const stripPrefix = (msg: string) => msg.replace(/^[a-z-]+:\s*/i, "");
+const mentionsCode = (msg: string) => /\b(code|invite|claim)\b/i.test(msg);
+
+async function publishSigned(kind: number, tags: string[][]): Promise<void> {
+  if (!auth.signer) throw new Error("Not logged in");
+  const event = await auth.signer.signEvent({
+    kind,
+    created_at: Math.floor(Date.now() / 1000),
+    tags,
+    content: "",
+  });
+  const timeout = new Promise<never>((_, reject) =>
+    setTimeout(() => reject(new Error("Relay did not respond in time")), 8000),
+  );
+  await Promise.race([Promise.all(publishForum(event)), timeout]);
+}
+
+type Codes = { relay?: string; group?: string };
+type Refusal = { step: JoinStep; message: string | null; codeHinted: boolean };
+type Outcome = { ok: true } | ({ ok: false } & Refusal);
+
+const fail = (
+  step: JoinStep,
+  message: string | null,
+  codeHinted = false,
+): Outcome => ({ ok: false, step, message, codeHinted });
+
+// Runs the two-level join: relay first (a group join needs relay membership),
+// then group. Everything free happens silently; the first refusal is reported
+// as the step needing user input.
+async function ensureAccess(groupId: string, codes: Codes): Promise<Outcome> {
+  const pubkey = auth.user?.pubkey;
+  if (!pubkey) return fail("error", "Not logged in");
+
+  await ensureRelayMembershipChecked(pubkey);
+  // Set when the relay refused the join for an unclear reason: a group
+  // refusal right after is then more likely the relay gate than the group's.
+  let relayRefused = false;
+  if (relayMembership[pubkey] === "guest") {
+    const tags: string[][] = [["-"]];
+    if (codes.relay) tags.push(["claim", codes.relay]);
+    try {
+      await publishSigned(28934, tags);
+      relayMembership[pubkey] = "member";
+    } catch (e) {
+      const msg = reason(e);
+      if (prefixed(msg, "duplicate:")) {
+        relayMembership[pubkey] = "member";
+      } else if (prefixed(msg, "restricted:")) {
+        // A bare request refused is the expected probe, not a user error
+        return fail("relay-code", codes.relay ? stripPrefix(msg) : null, true);
+      } else if (prefixed(msg, "blocked:")) {
+        return fail("error", stripPrefix(msg));
+      } else {
+        relayRefused = true;
+      }
+    }
+  }
+
+  await ensureMembershipChecked(groupId);
+  const k = memberKey(groupId);
+  if (membership[k] === "member") return { ok: true };
+  const tags: string[][] = [["h", groupId]];
+  if (codes.group) tags.push(["code", codes.group]);
+  try {
+    await publishSigned(9021, tags);
+  } catch (e) {
+    const msg = reason(e);
+    if (!prefixed(msg, "duplicate:")) {
+      if (prefixed(msg, "restricted:") && relayRefused) {
+        return fail("relay-code", stripPrefix(msg), true);
+      }
+      if (prefixed(msg, "restricted:")) {
+        const hinted = mentionsCode(msg);
+        return fail(
+          "group-code",
+          codes.group || !hinted ? stripPrefix(msg) : null,
+          hinted,
+        );
+      }
+      return fail("error", stripPrefix(msg));
+    }
+  }
+  // An accepted request doesn't imply membership: closed groups may hold it
+  // for admin approval, so re-read the relay's records before trusting it.
+  if (await checkMembership(pubkey, groupId)) {
+    membership[k] = "member";
+    showToast(`You joined ${getGroupName(groupId)}`);
+    return { ok: true };
+  }
+  return fail("pending", codes.group ? "The code was not accepted" : null);
+}
+
+function openModal(
+  groupId: string,
+  refusal: Refusal,
+  cb: (() => void | Promise<void>) | null,
+) {
+  modalGroup = groupId;
+  onJoined = cb;
+  modalStep = refusal.step;
+  modalCodeHinted = refusal.codeHinted;
+  modalError = refusal.message;
+  modalOpen = true;
+}
+
+// Wraps an action that posts to `groupId`, joining relay and group first when
+// needed. A write refused for membership reasons (e.g. a stale cache after the
+// relay changed policy) invalidates both caches and retries once from the top.
+// Returns false when the modal took over; the action then runs on its success.
+export async function withJoin(
+  groupId: string,
+  action: () => void | Promise<void>,
+): Promise<boolean> {
+  if (busy) return false;
+  busy = true;
+  try {
+    return await runWithAccess(groupId, action, {}, true);
+  } finally {
+    busy = false;
+  }
+}
+
+async function runWithAccess(
+  groupId: string,
+  action: () => void | Promise<void>,
+  codes: Codes,
+  retry: boolean,
+): Promise<boolean> {
+  const outcome = await ensureAccess(groupId, codes);
+  if (!outcome.ok) {
+    openModal(groupId, outcome, action);
+    return false;
+  }
+  try {
+    await action();
+    return true;
+  } catch (e) {
+    const pubkey = auth.user?.pubkey;
+    if (retry && pubkey && prefixed(reason(e), "restricted:")) {
+      delete membership[memberKey(groupId)];
+      if (relayMembership[pubkey] === "member")
+        relayMembership[pubkey] = "guest";
+      return runWithAccess(groupId, action, codes, false);
+    }
+    throw e;
   }
 }
 
@@ -202,86 +446,28 @@ export function closeJoinModal() {
   onJoined = null;
 }
 
-// Opens the join modal for a group, with an optional continuation to run after
-// a successful join (open the composer, focus the reply box, reload the feed).
-export function openJoinModal(
-  groupId: string,
-  cb?: () => void | Promise<void>,
-) {
-  modalGroup = groupId;
-  onJoined = cb ?? null;
-  modalError = null;
-  modalOpen = true;
-}
-
-async function publishJoinRequest(groupId: string, code?: string) {
-  if (!auth.signer) throw new Error("Not logged in");
-  const tags: string[][] = [["h", groupId]];
-  if (code) tags.push(["code", code]);
-  const event = await auth.signer.signEvent({
-    kind: 9021,
-    created_at: Math.floor(Date.now() / 1000),
-    tags,
-    content: "",
-  });
-  const timeout = new Promise<never>((_, reject) =>
-    setTimeout(() => reject(new Error("Relay did not respond in time")), 8000),
-  );
-  await Promise.race([Promise.all(publishForum(event)), timeout]);
-}
-
-// Sends the kind:9021 for the modal's target group, marks the user joined, and
-// runs the pending continuation. Errors keep the modal open for a retry.
-export async function submitJoin(code?: string) {
+// Re-runs the join with the code entered for the current step. Errors keep the
+// modal open for a retry; a further gate switches the modal to that step.
+export async function submitJoinCode(code?: string) {
   if (!modalGroup || busy) return;
   busy = true;
   modalError = null;
   const groupId = modalGroup;
   const cb = onJoined;
+  const codes: Codes =
+    modalStep === "relay-code" ? { relay: code } : { group: code };
   try {
-    await publishJoinRequest(groupId, code);
-    membership[memberKey(groupId)] = "member";
+    const outcome = await ensureAccess(groupId, codes);
+    if (!outcome.ok) {
+      openModal(groupId, outcome, cb);
+      return;
+    }
     modalOpen = false;
     modalGroup = null;
     onJoined = null;
     if (cb) await cb();
   } catch (e) {
-    modalError = e instanceof Error ? e.message : "Could not join the group";
-  } finally {
-    busy = false;
-  }
-}
-
-// Wraps an action that posts to `groupId`. The relay requires membership to
-// write to any group, so a non-member is joined first. Compose entry points
-// gate membership up front, making this mostly a safety net: it joins
-// transparently if possible, else opens the modal to retry.
-export async function withJoin(
-  groupId: string,
-  action: () => Promise<void>,
-): Promise<boolean> {
-  if (membership[memberKey(groupId)] === "member") {
-    await action();
-    return true;
-  }
-  busy = true;
-  try {
-    const pubkey = auth.user?.pubkey;
-    if (pubkey && (await checkMembership(pubkey, groupId))) {
-      membership[memberKey(groupId)] = "member";
-      await action();
-      return true;
-    }
-    await publishJoinRequest(groupId);
-    await action();
-    membership[memberKey(groupId)] = "member";
-    return true;
-  } catch (e) {
-    modalGroup = groupId;
-    onJoined = action;
-    modalError = e instanceof Error ? e.message : "Could not join the group";
-    modalOpen = true;
-    return false;
+    modalError = reason(e);
   } finally {
     busy = false;
   }
diff --git a/src/lib/relay.ts b/src/lib/relay.ts
index e850417..7c88ca7 100644
--- a/src/lib/relay.ts
+++ b/src/lib/relay.ts
@@ -26,7 +26,9 @@ export const forumPool = pool;
 
 function authParam() {
   const signer = auth.signer;
-  return signer ? { onauth: (evt: EventTemplate) => signer.signEvent(evt) } : {};
+  return signer
+    ? { onauth: (evt: EventTemplate) => signer.signEvent(evt) }
+    : {};
 }
 
 // Resolves once the forum connection is open and, when logged in, NIP-42
@@ -104,3 +106,33 @@ export async function ensureForumRelay(): Promise<AbstractRelay> {
 export function resetForumConnection(): void {
   pool.close([RELAY_URL]);
 }
+
+// NIP-11 document of the forum relay, fetched once per session. Used for NIP-43
+// discovery: clients must only send relay join requests to relays advertising
+// it, and the `self` pubkey signs the membership events we read back.
+let relayInfo: Promise<{ self: string | null; nips: string[] }> | null = null;
+
+export function forumRelayInfo() {
+  if (!relayInfo) {
+    relayInfo = import("@nostr/tools/nip11")
+      .then(({ fetchRelayInformation }) => fetchRelayInformation(RELAY_URL))
+      .then((info) => {
+        // `self` is a NIP-43 addition the library type doesn't know yet
+        const self = (info as { self?: unknown }).self;
+        return {
+          self: typeof self === "string" ? self : null,
+          // Relays mix numbers and strings in this list
+          nips: (info.supported_nips ?? []).map(String),
+        };
+      })
+      .catch(() => ({ self: null, nips: [] }));
+  }
+  return relayInfo;
+}
+
+// The relay pubkey when the forum relay supports NIP-43 relay membership,
+// otherwise null (no relay-level join is needed or allowed).
+export async function nip43Self(): Promise<string | null> {
+  const info = await forumRelayInfo();
+  return info.nips.includes("43") ? info.self : null;
+}
diff --git a/src/routes/thread/[id]/+page.svelte b/src/routes/thread/[id]/+page.svelte
index b41355b..7b50dce 100644
--- a/src/routes/thread/[id]/+page.svelte
+++ b/src/routes/thread/[id]/+page.svelte
@@ -19,9 +19,9 @@
   import { showToast } from "$lib/toast.svelte";
   import {
     withJoin,
+    joinState,
     membershipOf,
     ensureMembershipChecked,
-    openJoinModal,
   } from "$lib/join.svelte";
   import { setActiveGroup } from "$lib/active.svelte";
   import { applyHighlights, clearHighlights } from "$lib/pageHighlight";
@@ -136,7 +136,7 @@
 
   function onJoinToReply() {
     if (!detail) return;
-    openJoinModal(detail.groupId, async () => {
+    withJoin(detail.groupId, async () => {
       await tick();
       editorEl?.focus();
     });
@@ -514,9 +514,10 @@
               </p>
               <button
                 onclick={onJoinToReply}
-                class="bg-accent hover:bg-accent-hover rounded px-6 py-1.5 font-medium text-white"
+                disabled={joinState.busy}
+                class="bg-accent hover:bg-accent-hover rounded px-6 py-1.5 font-medium text-white disabled:opacity-50"
               >
-                Join to reply
+                {joinState.busy ? "Joining…" : "Join to reply"}
               </button>
             </div>
           {:else}